The men who created "Megalobox" speak passionately about their desire to depict a vivid human drama! Interview with director Hiroshi Moriyama, Katsuhiko Manabe (screenplay), and Kensaku Kojima (screenplay)!

The TV animation "Megalobox" was broadcast from April to June this year to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the serialization of "Ashita no Joe. Based on "Ashita no Joe" and set in the near future, this challenging original animation work depicting the drama of men involved in "Megalobox," a martial art in which they fight by fusing their bodies and gears, has gained popularity.

To commemorate the completion of the 13-episode broadcast and the release of the Blu-ray box set (sequentially available from July 27), we conducted a trilogy interview with the men who created "Megalobox. Director Hiroshi Moriyama, screenwriters Katsuhiko Manabe and Kensaku Kojima talked about everything from the start of the project to the secret story behind the production, as well as the appeal of "Ashita no Joe" and the particulars of the "Megalobox" project.

The "vivid human drama" and "way of life" of the original story

--What are your honest impressions now that all the episodes have been broadcast?

Moriyama: In terms of the planning stage, we had been working on this project for about four years, so I am relieved that we have finally reached the final episode. I am proud that we were able to give it a proper shape, and I feel a great sense of accomplishment.

--This film was created to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the serialization of "Ashita no Joe".

Moriyama: At first, I was asked by the producer Fujiyoshi (Minako) to participate in the creation of the picture material rather than directing. At the same time, Mr. Manabe was asked to outline the project and lay the groundwork.

Manabe: Fujikichi-san said he wanted to do a "Rikishi version. We wanted to tell the story of how the Toru Rikiishi we didn't know encountered boxing and fell in love with it, which was not depicted in the main story of "Ashita no Joe". We wanted to depict the life of this man, Toru Rikiishi.

--How did you go from there to the current "Megalobox"?

Moriyama: Me, Manabe-san, and Fujiyoshi-san were trying to figure out how we could animate the "Rikiishi Arc," but we just couldn't get it right. We couldn't come up with something that would convince people outside the company, including the audience.

So we put the project on hold and wondered if we could do it again without sticking to the "Rikiishi Arc. At first, we jokingly said, "Let's try replacing it with the near future. We materialized that idea and came up with "Megalobox.

--I was surprised that you took the challenge to include so many original elements, rather than just remaking the original.

Manabe: There was talk of remaking "Ashita no Joe" with today's technology, but I honestly thought, "What are you going to do with that? (laughs). For our generation, "Ashita no Joe" is a work that has become a kind of sustenance for life. Since we were going to use it as the basis for the film, we felt that it had to be something that would move people's hearts in the same way that it moved ours.

--Even though it was not a remake, the core or essential theme of "Ashita no Joe" had to be retained. In that sense, what were you conscious of?

Manabe: I wanted to go as far as I could in terms of living and burning life. It may sound muddy and cynical, but I wanted to show that way of life. It may be an old-fashioned, heroic aspect, but I wanted to make the most of that base. However, I did not have a clear theme in mind.

Kojima I joined the project after it became "Megalobox," but I did not have a clear theme in mind. At that point, the framework of "Megalobox" was already in place, so I used that as a base to figure out how to go about confronting Yuri, a fated rival.

Moriyama: As for the axis of the story, I extracted the story of "from the encounter between Takeshi Yabuki and Toru Rikiishi to their reunion and fight" from the original work and made it original. However, I think the part that I extracted the most from the original story was the "vividness of the human drama. As Mr. Kojima said when he saw "Ashita no Joe" for the first time, "It's very vivid", I tried to depict the vividness of human life as an original story. I dare say that might have been the theme of the film.

Kojima It is very gekiga-ish and has a touch of irony, but more than that, I felt the spirit of a living person in a vivid way. It could have been Tetsuya Chiba or Asao Takamori (Ikki Kajiwara), but I wanted to create a human drama and not make it a pictorial story just because it is set in the near future.

--Did you all read or watch "Ashita no Joe" before working on this film?

Kojima: Of course I knew it existed, but I had not read it (for my generation). This was the first time I read the original work and watched the anime.

Moriyama: I didn't read it in real time until I was much older. I first read the manga, but I was drawn to it because of its vivid drama, or rather, the fact that it was a drama and not just a manga. It was a different experience from other manga.

Manabe: I saw the anime "Ashita no Joe 2" in real time. But it was always on reruns, and I read the original manga countless times. I had all the manga in my classroom at school (laughs).

As they said, it is a down-to-earth story. It's not easy to live like that, and I really admire it. However, it is sad that everyone becomes unhappy (after the battle). That is a kind of negative attraction.

Moriyama: In terms of unhappiness, I think that in today's anime, there are many requests for something extremely shocking. That said, I had no intention of responding to such requests, and we talked about how to end the story as "Megalobox" without being dragged down by "Ashita no Joe".

Manabe: Whether it's Aragaki or Jusei, the people who fight Joe regain a new life, but I didn't depict that as a theme, it just happened as a result. （I wanted to depict something other than "Rikiishi dies and Karlos becomes a cripple. I wanted to depict something that wasn't "Rikiishi dies and Carlos becomes a cripple.

--In the "Megalobox" episode, Joe can punch his opponent in the face even after the last episode, right? (*In the original story, Rikiishi is unable to punch his opponent in the face due to the trauma of his death.)

Manabe: I don't know about that (laughs).

Moriyama I don't know if he can punch his opponent in the face, but all I know is that Joe got out of the ring after the fight with Yuuri.

The video was not made to be close to the original work, but to be as good as the story.

--What was the inspiration behind the "Megalobox" competition using gears?

Moriyama: At first, it was a little more mechanical. I didn't even wear gloves, and we started with a steel plate. But I thought that would kill me right away (laughs).

--(laughs) - So your image is like Potemkin Azuma, who appears as a bodyguard?

Moriyama: Yes. I was thinking about how much of the mechanical elements should be incorporated into the boxing, such as having him wear headgear. In the picture-making stage, I was trying to figure out the mecha as a setting, but in the story-making stage, I wasn't thinking that much about the details. I just thought, "Boxing exists in the near future.

Kojima However, I was very worried about Jyuo's AI-equipped gears during the script writing stage. I wondered what kind of performance it would have, where its weaknesses would be, and where Joe would find his chance to win.

Moriyama: That's right. Other than that, we were saying things like, "How do gears work? (laughs).

Manabe: I mean, I didn't expect it to be seen so much like a "battle between machines. But, surprisingly, there were people who were expecting it. They said, "I see! It's "Megalobox," isn't it? That's right, they were angry. And they said, "Oh, come on, it turns out to be a normal boxing match at the end! (laughs).

Moriyama: Maybe it wasn't a good idea to use that as the title (laughs).

Manabe: The appeal of "Ashita no Joe" is that it is a down-to-earth human drama, and I wanted to make sure that it was a solid drama. I watched the current anime to study it, and I thought it was very different from the anime. Even so, I continued to work on it because I knew it would be interesting.

--You and Kojima-san are not originally from the animation field, but from the visual field, aren't you? Did you feel any difference between animation and visual images?

Manabe: The scenario itself is not that different, but the way of expression is different. For example, in live-action, the viewer can tell what the characters are thinking even when they are silent, but in animation, it is said that the viewer can't tell at all. In an animated film, it is necessary to make the characters say what their intentions are in "......". It is difficult to say "I really think this, but I say the exact opposite" in an anime. I learned a lot from this experience. I learned a lot.

Kojima It was my first time, so I tried to do things in a way that I didn't understand and asked Mr. Moriyama and Mr. Fujiyoshi to judge me. I was more conscious of not writing too much than in the live-action version, and if I was saying too much, I would restrain myself. I had to raise the tension myself, otherwise I thought it would be weak as an animation script, so I was conscious of that.

I was able to observe the postrecording, and I was impressed by how well everyone was able to create the breathless performances. I felt that I shouldn't just connect "......" with the atmosphere.

--I heard that you also made use of your experience as an animator to draw a story board and convey the story to the audience.

Moriyama: I thought the best I could do was to draw pictures. Since it was an original work, I had to go about it in a state of exploration, so I tried to present as many clues as possible and drew as many pictures as I could. It was difficult for a first-time director, but I think I was able to enjoy the work to the end without being too conscious of the fact that it was my first time.

Manabe: Mr. Moriyama created the world by translating the text into pictures, and when he showed me these pictures as reference materials, we were able to share a common understanding, which helped me a lot in the following scenario work. I was very grateful, and the work itself was fun.

--In the actual video, I felt that you were very particular about the use of lines and making the images look like celluloid pictures.

Moriyama: As you say, we were particular about using cel-shaded lines and reducing the quality of the images to that of old CRT televisions.

For "Megalobox," the scripts for all the episodes were completed before we started work on the pictures for the first episode. That's why I thought that if we were going to do this story right, we had to make the images strong enough to keep up with the story. At first, I imagined it would be a little more simple, but I made the lines and the quality of the images rougher.

--The image is very distinctive and has a strong impact.

Moriyama: Some people might think that I made the images closer to the old "Ashita no Joe," but that was not my goal.

The expression of the eyes and pride that came from our feelings for Toru Rikiishi

--Please tell us about any episodes that were difficult in creating the story and the number of episodes that left a lasting impression.

Manabe: The episode that was difficult for me was the one related to Jyuu. It took me a long time to write the script on how to win the match against his trickery. I had a lot of ideas about what would happen after the fight with Yuri, but I had a vague idea of what would happen.

--Did you have another plan for how you wanted to end the story?

Manabe: Yes, there was. I had an idea for how to end the fight: "Joe disappears after the fight, and he appears in the underground ring at the end. But I didn't want to leave the old man in the south who had lost his sight (laughs).

--How about you, Kojima-san?

Kojima: I think it's the Jyuu part, after all. Episode 8, which I was in charge of, was a mystery-solving episode with no fight scene. I wondered how I could make the anime more interesting by having Nambu act like a detective as he investigates the power struggles within the Hakuto Concern and the gears. I had a hard time finding a way to make it interesting as an animation, especially right before the final ceremony.

Moriyama: The three episodes (episodes 7 to 9) of the Jyuu version took the longest time. We had to turn the plot upside down. It was also the part where we had to make the most changes.

Kojima: In the first idea, I was thinking of how to get Yukiko to trust me and get the ticket to Megalonia. But then we decided that we needed a character who would confront Joe, so we introduced Jusei, and that's how the story got more complicated.

Moriyama: At first, we were working on a "Joe and his friends vs. Yukiko" structure, so the opponent was rather unimportant (laughs).

Kojima It was like the guy who was smoldering under Yuki's thumb and wasn't paying attention, wasn't it?

Manabe Yes, that's right. （He was like Wolf Kanegushi (from "Ashita no Joe") or Shark Samejima, "a guy on the same team who had a complex about Yuuri. But it took me a long time to rethink whether he would be a weak opponent.

--I thought he would be a weak opponent, but when I thought about it again, I realized that he was pretty tough.

Moriyama: The names were not decided upon, but were given to me as I came up with them during the script writing stage. We didn't talk about sprinkling in small jokes from the beginning.

Manabe: I don't want to be misunderstood that way (laughs). I didn't set out to please everyone, but rather just a bit of a service mentality. It was just a bit of a service mentality, and I thought it would be interesting if people who understood it saw it.

Moriyama: In terms of design, we tried to make the main characters look like "Ashita no Joe," but the sub-characters and small jokes were just for fun.

Manabe: Joe is the only one who is different. I didn't think there was any way to design something that would evoke Joe with that design (laughs).

-In terms of appearance, Nambu is so recognizably Danpei Tange.

Manabe I think Nambu, the trainer, couldn't imagine another picture (laughs). But Nambu's personality is quite problematic, isn't it? He used to be a top-notch athlete and trainer, but a man who was soaked in alcohol and gambling and slanted toward the world changes as he watches Joe fight ....... When I thought about this character, I decided to make him look more like Tange.

--I thought that Tange's appearance would be more in line with Tange's. - On the other hand, Yuri looks different in everyday life, but his eyes in close-up are completely Toru Rikiishi's, aren't they?

Manabe: When the storyboards came in, I was like, "Oh, it's Rikiishi! It's Rikiishi" (laughs). I didn't realize it when I was writing the scenario, but I knew that this is how Rikiishi was to be presented.

Moriyama: I think it is obvious from the relationship that this is Joe and that guy is Rikiishi. I had been working on the "Rikiishi version," and I was very attached to the character of Rikiishi, so I wanted to express the look in his eyes.

--I wanted to express the look in his eyes. Rikiishi lost a lot of weight to fight Takeshi Yabuki.

Moriyama: It was a ritual or a test to fight the main character. This part was strongly expressed in "Ashita no Joe," so I wanted to have it in "Megalobox" as well. It was a trend that had been decided from the very beginning.

Manabe: I thought about what I could translate the weight loss into, and decided to remove the gears. But originally (in "Ashita no Joe"), I didn't know much about boxing and drew Rikishi's physique incorrectly, which apparently became interesting (laughs). (Laughs.) You might say, "Why don't you have Joe move up a class," but I think if I said that, Rikiishi would say no. He's a man of pride or something like that. I guess it's pride, or maybe that's just the kind of man he is.

--If the two of them compromised on the ranks, the story wouldn't be interesting (laughs).

Manabe I don't want to be that kind of "Ashita no Joe" (laughs).

(laughs) Rikishi's pride and self-assurance that he can beat you even if he has to bear the negative aspects of his own life is an important part of his character. I thought about how to adapt the original story.

I want you to watch the entire episode as if it were a six-and-a-half-hour movie.

--I want you to watch the whole movie as if it were a six-and-a-half-hour movie.

Moriyama: That would be Aragaki. I like him as a character and have strong feelings for him because of his important role. I personally think that the story in episodes 5 and 6 centering on him turned out to be a good story, so his relationships and facial expressions left a particularly strong impression on me.

Manabe: I guess it's Sachi and the others. It's a little more inside than the original (Sachi and the mushrooms), especially the way Sachio is involved is different from the original. It's nice to see a boy who thought he was going to use Joe to avenge his parents' death, but then he decides to live his own life. I also liked the scene in the car when Yukiko tells him to go get revenge.

Kojima I am Yukiko, aren't I? I was impressed by the way she accepted the situation and never lost her pride in not being defeated, even though she was in a position where she had to make "Megalobox" a reality and could not reveal her emotions. I would be happy if you could feel that she is also a human being and that this is another human drama.

--So the human drama part of the film left a strong impression on you.

Kojima That's right. I went to see an exhibition of original "Ashita no Joe" paintings, and there was an original painting of the scene where Yoko Shiraki says, "I love you, Yabuki! I saw an original drawing of the scene where Yoko Shiraki says, "I love you, Yabuki, you're my favorite! I didn't really understand that Yoko Shiraki was a noble person, but when I drew this scene, I finally understood that she was also a human being. When I was writing the script, I didn't have a clear idea of what kind of life a rich man like him was leading. So I was glad that I was able to bring out that (human) side in the end.

--By the way, what did Yukiko say at the end? I thought it might be "Arigato (Thank you)" from the way she was saying it.

Moriyama: "Thank you.

Actually, the script only said "......", but during the post recording, Nanako Mori asked the sound director what she should say. She said, "Please give me a word that is just enough to fit that scale and expresses up to that point," to which Ms. Mori replied, "Thank you. He said, "Thank you." The sound was muted in the video, but he was actually performing that kind of play.

--I was actually doing that kind of play.

Moriyama: It was the first time for me to experience a postrecording studio for the entire series, so I was completely overwhelmed. I had a vague idea of what kind of person Joe would be and how he would speak, since I had the pictures and the script, but until Hosoya-san's voice clicked with me, I couldn't quite get it right. But until Hosoya-san's voice came in, I didn't have a good feeling about how it was going to be done. Rather than who did it, the recording studio for the first episode left a great impression on me.

--The music was also impressive in terms of sound, and it was interesting how they had the characters sing rap songs to explain the story.

Moriyama: Regardless of who sang, I had the idea of doing a rap song from the beginning.

Manabe It's like an ancient and modern minstrelsy.

Moriyama: I didn't want the music to be frivolous, and I wanted to create a theatrical accompaniment in the image of the music flowing in this world. In a town like this, hip-hop and rap music would be playing.

--The Blu-ray box set will be released on July 27. What kind of content will be included in this box set?

Moriyama: It will be the story of when Joe and Nanbu first met. It's a prequel to the first episode, which depicts the first time Joe is put in the underground eight hundred ring and dragged into his own world.

It may seem strange to look back at it after watching the last episode, but we see a more deadly pair, with a relationship yet to be created. How did Joe come to do the 800 and how did he come to wear the on-board gear? The origin of the name "Junk Dog" and why he chose to call himself that is also discussed.

--Please give a message to those who have been watching the show every week and those who will be watching it on Blu-ray or through distribution.

Moriyama: I think it's great that you can watch all the episodes in a row on Blu-ray and distribution. The experience of watching 30 minutes once a week and the experience of watching 13 episodes in a row will give you a different impression, so I would be happy if you could watch it.

Manabe: Because there are 13 30-minute animations, I created this work with the idea of "making a 6.5-hour movie," so if you watch them all at once, you will see that foreshadowing was laid out here. In fact, there are parts that I thought the viewers would be more caught up in, but they surprisingly didn't go through (laughs). I hope you will enjoy watching it until the last episode, and then go back and watch it again from the episode before the first episode, going around and around like a circle on .......

--What were some of the specific points that you went through?

Manabe: For example, I thought it would be obvious that Nanbu's promise to Fujimaki was not to "win the championship" but to "cheat in the Megalonia.

Moriyama: In episode 10, Joe and the others find out about the backroom dealings, but even up to that point, I expressed through Minami's facial expressions that there was something he was keeping secret from them. If you look back at the episodes all at once, I think you can see this aspect of the story more clearly.

Manabe: Like the scene where he tries to say something before the match. He must have thought it was hell to say it and hell not to say it.

--Kojima Could you give us a message from Mr. Kojima as well?

Kojima You are right, so I'm going to try to watch it all at once!

Manabe What the heck is that? (Laughs)

(Interview and text by Kenichi Chiba)