Long interview with Kohei Ogawa, 3D director! (The 44th "Inside Man" of Anime and Games)

This is a long-running series of articles by writer crepuscular, which you will never read in other media, based on his original reporting. In this 44th installment, we introduce Mr. Kohei Ogawa, President of Marco Inc. and a 3D director. Mr. Ogawa, who rose to prominence as a 3DCG staff member at P.A.WORKS, known as a talented studio, was selected as a 3D director for "Charlotte" and contributed to improving the quality of the work by using 3DCG to create three-dimensional expressions, etc. He was later selected for "Chromium Chromium" as a 3D director. Later, as chief production manager of "Chrome Chrome," he was also recognized for his talent in management. After working as a 3D director for "Yutten Kazoku 2" and "Sakura Quest," he left P.A. WORKS and is now trying to breathe new life into the animation industry as an up-and-coming entrepreneur in his 20s. In this article, we will talk about his career, work style, production episodes, future challenges, etc. What role should a 3D director play in animation production? How did the addition of Mr. Ogawa as a main staff member polish each of his works? If you get to know the "people in the middle," you will surely discover new ways of looking at and enjoying animation!

A 3D director who balances creativity and management

This is the first interview with a 3D director in this series. First of all, let me confirm the role of a "3D director" in animation. According to a general textbook, 3DCG production involves the following processes: modeling to form three-dimensional objects, texture mapping to give texture to three-dimensional objects, scene layout setting to determine light sources and camera positions, rendering to draw images and video, and retouching to modify images and video. I heard that there are several processes involved in the 3DCG production process. On the website of your 3DCG production company "Marco," you list "modeling," "animation," and "3DLO/3DBG.

Kohei Ogawa (Ogawa): The duties of the 3D section in animation are roughly as you described. The 3D director is not only responsible for giving instructions to the 3D staff, but it is also important to communicate well with the other sections, such as the color, background, drawing, and photography sections, while considering how to make their work easier. In animation, there is a thorough division of labor, so it is not enough just to communicate with the director.

Ogawa: Do you mean that your duties are different from those of 3DCG production for games, etc.?

Ogawa: In terms of modeling, animation, and compositing, there is no major difference, but in the case of 3DCG for animation, the workflow is completely different from that of CG production. It's really common for the CG side to impose its convenience on the surrounding sections. ...... Animation requires industry-specific management, as each section of the production process (drawing, background, color, photography, and 3D......) has to work together to find the best way to produce the work.

The 3D staff of "SHIROBAKO" (aka "Shirobako"), "Shirobako" (aka "Shirobako"), and "Shirobako" (aka "Shirobako") are all 3D animation productions. For "Shirobako" (2014), he was credited as "3D layout.

Ogawa I think I am the first person to be listed as "3D Layout" at P.A.WORKS. Before "SHIROBAKO," we did not have any staff specializing in "3D layout. SHIROBAKO" was a work that involved a lot of internal communication, so we decided to have a dedicated staff member, and I was given a separate credit for the work.

I was in charge of the "3D layout," which involved using a 3D camera to actually take pictures of the stage and characters specified in each cut of the storyboard. In the case of "Shirobako," it would be Musashino Animation. We make a rough 3D model of each room of such a place, place the characters, and actually take pictures of them with a 3D camera. The animators would then create their drawings based on these models. In this way, the perspective of the drawing does not deviate.

How much 3D layout was used for each episode?

Ogawa: For "SHIROBAKO," there were about 150 to 200 cuts.

Ogawa: The high quality of the drawings in "SHIROBAKO" was not due to the efforts of the original animators and animation directors alone, was it?

Ogawa: It is difficult and time-consuming to draw a room in drawing, but with 3D, the model was complete, and I was able to make 100 to 150 cuts in one day. It was faster than drawing, and there were no mistakes. I think the amount of information around the desk was also solid.

Ogawa: The exhibits at the exhibition at Idepon in episode 6 were created by hand, weren't they?

Ogawa: They were drawings, but there was a rough 3D model. For example, there was a box-shaped model of the arms of the idepon, and we used it to create a 3D layout. Even with a rough model, we were able to get a better perspective than with a drawing. For "SHIROBAKO," our policy was to "produce 3D layouts as long as they could be produced.

Ogawa: In "Chrome Chrome" (2016), you are credited as a "digital artist.

Ogawa: "Digital artist" is the same as "3DCG" or "3D CGI" that we often use at P.A. Since we used a lot of subcontractors for this work, I think we used "digital artist" in the credit notation to match the other companies. I was working on robot models and adding movement to them. I made models of robots, such as the mass-produced Geoframe Cactus from Efidorg. I also made mobs and vehicles.

Ogawa: Looking at other robot works, it seems that even if the robots were made in 3D, the destruction and dirt was added later by drawing.

Ogawa: If I had to make a single stop, it would be much easier to draw the destruction with drawings, but since "Chrome Chlo" is a robot that fights while being torn to pieces, I created the destruction and dirt by destroying the 3D textures and models.

You are also the "Chief Production Manager" for "Chrome Chrome". Kosuke Haruta is the "3D director" of the same work. How do your duties differ?

Ogawa: Simply put, I was in charge of 3D production. 50 to 100 3D cuts were made for each episode, and in many episodes, there were about 200 cuts. I was in charge of organizing those 13 companies and the company. Haruta-san handled the creative side, and I handled the production side.

Ogawa: In episode 13, the Chromeclo Haribote dolls that were displayed at the Rikko Festival, were they 3D or drawn?

Ogawa: That was done with a 3D layout and retouched by the background artist.

P.A.'s first attempt at 3D backgrounds with "Charlotte" and its application with "Sakura Quest

Ogawa: You mentioned 3D background models earlier, but according to Mr. Nobuto Sue, the art setter I talked to in my series, the art section sometimes creates 3D backgrounds.

Ogawa: I have worked with Sue-san from time to time since the P.A. days, and even after I moved to Dandelion Animation Studios, we worked together on "Akane Sasu Shoujo" (2018). I'm not sure how Kusanagi-san used to use 3DCG, but he used to create 3D models based on art settings, paste backgrounds as textures, and render them once he decided on the camera. What he does is not so different from what we do, but the sections are totally different.

I see. Technically, both art and 3D can be used, so you have a meeting to determine which of the two should be in charge of each work, and how the roles should be divided.

Ogawa: That's right. For example, in "Sakura Quest" (2017), for which I was the 3D director, the 3D side did the work. I had the background artist draw the art board, and then created the models and textures on the 3D side accordingly. I think this method used to be the mainstream, but I have the impression that more and more background companies are hiring their own in-house 3D staff to create 3D models including textures.

Ogawa: What kind of backgrounds were made in 3D?

Ogawa: Places that only appear in a few shots and the Chupacabra Kingdom were not made into 3D backgrounds, but the log house where Yuno and her family lived and the office of the Manoyama Tourist Association were made in 3D. The log house in particular was created in 3D, from the first floor to the second floor stairwell. For "Shirobako," I made 3D models for Musashino Animation and others, and I made detailed models of how the doors open to different rooms, but I couldn't even put textures on them, so I couldn't convert them to 3DBG. But later, with "Charlotte" (2015), I was able to gain experience with 3DBG, so I applied that to "Sakura Quest" and made the entire log house into a 3DBG.

I was able to apply that experience to "Sakura Quest" by creating a 3DBG of the entire log house.

Ogawa: I think it could have been used in VR, and I think that's what the planners were talking about (laughs).

Laughs] - Speaking of "Charlotte," this is your first work as a 3D director. The use of 3D backgrounds in "Charlotte" was innovative. In episode 2, when Yuu enters the student council room for the first time, in episode 3, when Tomori is hit by a man just after turning down an alley, and in episode 12, when Yuu returns to the hospital room and Nao is waiting for her while eating rockies, the 3D background was used to create a three-dimensional camera work.

Ogawa: I created the 3D model after consulting with the art director, Kazuo Tochi, and pasted in all the textures. The scene when the students enter the student council room was our first attempt, and it was something P.A. had never done before, so we got a reaction like "You can do this! It was interesting to work on it.

The scene where Takagi uses his instantaneous movement ability, was that also done with a 3D background?　In the first episode, there is a scene where he goes through the road at high speed and heads toward Yuu who is climbing the stairs on the bank.

Ogawa: We used 3D backgrounds for all the scenes. For this kind of cut, the interaction with the background artist is very important. Since the camera was moving very close to the scene, we asked the background artist to draw a number of high-resolution textures.

In the scene where Takagi gets the pork cutlet sandwich in episode 2, the tables in the cafeteria and the mob students were blown up, but that was also done in 3D. By having the 3D section handle not only the background but also the props and mobs, a sense of unity was created in the portrayal of Takagi's abilities.

Ogawa: Thank you very much. This is very nostalgic (laughs).

Division of roles with the photography section

How about fire, water, snow, petals, light, etc.?　Sometimes it seems to be the work of the filming section, and sometimes it is the work of the animators. As a side note, there was a scene in the 5th episode of "SHIROBAKO" where the 3D director Shimoyanagi and the animation director Endo were arguing over whether the explosion effects should be done by drawing or 3D.

Ogawa: Actually, the software used in all sections is similar, so any section can do it if they want to. However, each section has different skills, so we have to consult with the director and decide what to do.

In the 11th episode of "Sakura Quest," the fireflies that flew around the area to the accompaniment of the dragon song sung by Rinko were beautiful. In the fourth episode of "Yutten Kazoku 2" (2017), fireflies were also dancing in the scene where Yaichiro and Tamaran were playing shogi (Japanese chess).

Ogawa: Both fireflies were done in 3D.

─ In "Charlotte" there were not only Takagi, but also numerous other people with abilities. For example, when Yuu used her ability to take over another person's body, both of her eyes would glow yellow, Tomori became invisible with her invisibility ability, and Misuna manipulated flames. Where were you responsible for these expressions?

Ogawa: Yu and Tomori's abilities were done by the cinematographer. I remember that Misuna's flames were done by the artist and then heated by the cinematographer.

In episode 13, there is a scene where Yuu uses a barrier to block bullets and blow them out. Were these all done by the filming section?

Ogawa: The barrier was done by the cinematographer, but the blowing out was done in 3D.

I guess it's hard to tell from just watching the movie without asking.

Ogawa "Charlotte" was the first film I directed in 3D, and the director, Yoshiyuki Asai, allowed me to work freely. Mr. Asai is the type of director who says, "If you do it, I'll leave it to you," so it was very easy and fun to work with him. Basically, when you use 3D, you are making 3D versions of things that appear in many other episodes, but I wanted to do it without worrying too much about that, so I was able to do it like, "This expression would be interesting if it were expressed in 3D! I wanted to do it without worrying too much about that.

I was surprised at how much work was put into the cell phone game that Takagi and Yuzusaki were playing in episode 5 and the arcade game "Silent of the Dead" that Yu was playing while eating Mitarashi dango in episode 7, even though they were only a few seconds long.

Ogawa: When I was at P.A., I didn't worry too much about budgets and such, so I suggested to Director Asai, "How about leaving this part to 3D?" I would suggest to Director Asai, "How about leaving this part to 3D?