What were "Evangelion" and Hideaki Anno for the real-time generation?　Writers and Editors' Roundtable Discussion to Commemorate the End of "Shin Evangelion the Movie: ||" and its Distribution on Amapura

Shin Evangelion the Movie: ||," the culmination of the "Neon Genesis Evangelion" series, will conclude its run on July 21, 2021.

Prior to this, on July 12, the film had been doing extremely well, with box-office sales surpassing 10 billion yen. Although it seemed premature to declare the end of the film, the film was soon distributed exclusively on the video distribution service "Amazon Prime Video" from August 13, 2021 in more than 240 countries and regions around the world, including Japan. It is likely that the film will be distributed on Amazon Prime Video before the excitement of the theatrical release has cooled down.

In this article, Kiri Nakazato (writer), Koji Shimizu (editor), and Shun Arita (Akiba Research Institute editor), who have been watching Hideaki Anno's works since the last century and make their living from animation, talk a lot about the "Eva" works and phenomenon, including "Shin Evangelion the Movie:||". Please feel free to enjoy the conversation as if it were an exchange at one of the drinking parties that would have taken place across the country if not for the Corona disaster.

What is the real-time generation's opinion of "Shin Eva"?

─ ─ For this interview, we asked you to summarize what "Eva" meant to those of you who were a part of the generation that experienced it firsthand.

Kiri Nakazato Since I am too lazy to summarize "Eva" as a content, I would like to ask you to give a personal summary of "Evangelion" for you and your generation.

Shun Arita In my case, I think I liked Hideaki Anno more than "Eva. I think it was the romance of Hideaki Anno and the group of people surrounding him.

Nakasato It is the very human relationship from DAICON FILM to GAINAX and xαpα (color).

─ I see. So, let's start with your first encounter with "Evangelion".

Arita I was 14 years old when Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's comic book series "Neon Genesis Evangelion" began. The broadcast of the TV anime "Neon Genesis Evangelion" (1995) coincided with a major event in my life, my high school entrance exams. Just as I was getting close to the climax of my studies for the entrance examinations, "Otoko no Kattles" started (TV series episode 19, "Otoko no Kattles"), so I didn't know what to do anymore.

Kouji Shimizu: In terms of social phenomena, the age group of each person may be quite important. The way they relate to the work must be slightly different.

Nakazato I am two years older than Mr. Arita. When I entered high school, the TV anime "Neon Genesis Evangelion" started airing, so I was able to direct all my energy toward it. I was heavily influenced by "Nadia of the Mysterious Sea" (1990), five years before "Eva," and Nadia was the first VHS movie I bought. So when I sat down to watch the first episode of the new work by "that" Hideaki Anno and Gainax on the standard recording, I was struck by the OP image. I watched the OP dozens of times that day.

Shimizu: I was also a strong anime fan of "Nadia of the Mysterious Sea" at the time, buying anime magazines and goods, and I even bought a Nadia fanzine. But for a while after that, I was more interested in fun and girls, and I had almost graduated from anime. The last episode of the TV anime was the first time I watched "Eva" in real time.

Nakazato That's surprising.

Shimizu: I was living in a rural area, but there was a lot of talk about it, so I rushed to watch it, but it was already the last episode. I went back and watched all the episodes, so I didn't feel any discomfort about the final episode, and I wasn't crazy about "Eva" at all. Rather, because the final episode was at the core of the film, I disliked the difficult "Evangelion: Introduction," "Evangelion: The Movie," "Evangelion: The Movie," and "Evangelion: Q," and I applauded "Shin Evangelion: The Movie," so I am on the opposite side of the spectrum. Arita, did you go through the Gainax works before "Eva"?

Arita: I started with "Nadia of the Mysterious Sea" myself. I was into "Mobile Suit V Gundam" at a similar time.

Nakazato: Otaku of the real-time generation of the TV version of "Eva" were into "Nadia of the Mysterious Sea" or "Aim for the Top" (1988) or "Royal Space Force" (1988). (1988) and "Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honneamise" (1987). For example, the fact that the voice actor for Koji Takao, the chief engineer in "Shin Evangelion the Movie: ||" is Akio Otsuka, puts Captain Nemo of "Nadia of the Secret Garden" = Akio Otsuka in context. The voice of the chief engineer is the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear the voice of the chief engineer.

Shimizu: When I heard the voice of the chief engineer, I thought he was too cool at first (laughs). (Laughs.) In that position, the voice of Ichiro Nagai (who played Hikozaemon Tokugawa, the chief engineer of "Space Battleship Yamato") came to mind. So I think it is interesting that the actor who sat in the captain's seat as Captain Nemo is in a veteran position in this film as a generational change.

Arita "Shin Evangelion the Movie: ||" itself seems to have gathered all the fun and delicious parts of the Super Anno Hideaki Taisen style.

Nakazato: Battleships that pay homage to "Space Battleship Yamato" appear repeatedly in Anno's works, and Misato's mission to deliver the spear in "Shin Evangelion The Movie: ||" was "Operation Yamato. Even after making "Godzilla," "Kamen Rider," and "Ultraman," I think Anno still wants to make "Yamato" (laughs).

Shimizu: Why don't you make a "Shin Yamato"?

Nakazato: "Shin Yamato" sounds a bit like "Gundam Seed," but I think that "Yamato" is the domain of Yutaka Izubuchi (*General Director of "Space Battleship Yamato 2199").

───There are pros and cons to "Shin Evangelion the Movie: ||" as a work that concludes the series that has spanned a quarter of a century. How do you evaluate the work from your point of view?

Arita I feel that the theme and what Director Hideaki Anno wanted to do in the work did not waver until the very end.

Shimizu: That's what's great about it.

Arita I think that director Anno's message of "Otaku, go back to reality" has not changed since the old movie version ("Neon Genesis Evangelion: Air / Magokoro wo Kimini ni" (1997)). In the old film, he used violent images and a message to persuade us to return to reality, but in this film, he grabs the otaku by both shoulders and says, "Let's graduate, okay? It's like he's trying to persuade them. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I feel that Hideaki Anno has matured. Also, I am thankful that it is over.

Nakazato There are two ways of looking at it: those who want entertainment, those who want to see an action movie, those who want pedantry with various mysteries, and those who want to see a human drama. ...... One thing is that the work has been put together to be more than a score. On top of that, for someone like myself, whose soul is still stuck in the old theatrical version, I have the impression that they have prepared a 120-point ending.

Shimizu: There are both pros and cons, but I think that this is the most praiseworthy of all the "Eva" films up to now, and even closer to a rave review. First of all, it was the point that "Eva" was completed. Critic Tsunehiro Uno, however, clearly disagrees. I, too, am a raving critic. It is wonderful.

Nakazato I think that the generation from the TV series to the older generation are very much in favor of "Shin Eva".

Arita There are those who enjoy it from a visual geek's point of view, there are those who want to discuss science fiction, and there are those who used to buy the erotic coterie magazine "Nakayohi Mogdan". While there are many different ways of looking at it, I think one of the groups that were outraged this time were those with character moe attributes.

Nakazato Ah, the so-called LAS (love-asuka-sinji) people. That would be angry, and they are angry.

Arita I thought that the fact that you left out the part that should fit in in terms of coupling was also a betrayal in a sense from the official, or perhaps a nudge toward graduation.

Shimizu For me, it was a near-perfect ending, including the combination.

Nakazato From my uncle's point of view, it's not so much the happy ending of Shinji and Asuka's marriage, but the lingering exchange of "I think I liked you back then, thank you, I think I liked Asuka, too" is more touching.

Shimizu: Yes, it is very touching.

Arita It's very attractive to old men, isn't it?

─ ─ In terms of official couplings, Shinji is with Mari and Asuka is with Kensuke Aida. And as for Rei, there is an illustration in the official booklet that makes it look like she and Kaworu have started a family.

Shimizu: The illustration of Rei and Kaworu (Kaworu is carrying a child who looks exactly like Shinji on his shoulders) is an amazing service cut, which would never happen in real life. Even in the last scene, Shinji and Mari are on this side of the platform and Rei and Kaworu are on the opposite side, so there was a sense of reality and the world of the spirits (kakuriyo).

Nakasato Who did you prefer as the heroine?

Shimizu: I was in favor of Asuka as a character, but I didn't want her to get together with Shinji because I wasn't from a race that was crazy about "Eva". What about you, Nakazato?

Nakazato I was an otaku who liked sub-characters, so I liked Maya Ibuki. As for the main heroine, I was a Rei fan at the time of the TV series, but I gradually came to think Asuka was cute. However, for "Shin Evangelion the Movie: ||," I think it was important to have a heroine who was neither Rei nor Asuka.

Shimizu: Although it was late, I, too, found the significance of Mari's existence in "Shin Eva". Until then, I had not been able to read the role. Shinji can't be attached to Ayanami or Asuka, and if he stays there, he can't depict "growth. In fact, the line "I loved you" implies a graduation from boyhood. At that time, I understood the need for Mari to walk with Shinji, who had become a young man.

Nakazato Since "Q" was a work that placed too much burden on Shinji and the viewers, I feel that a buffer was needed to accept Shinji. Also, in the TV series, Gendou had become a mere suppressor, so I think we needed Mari to get to know Gendou, Fuyutsuki, and Yui on an equal footing in order to portray Gendou and Fuyutsuki as human beings.

Shimizu: Shinji, Rei, Asuka, Fuyutsuki, Gendou, and all the other characters have their own pain, but with Mari it was hard to see. It is predictable that she must be in pain, but the way she acts cheerful and energetic without showing it is fascinating, and she is the only character who is able to do so. I think that's why she can walk with Shinji. I really like the character even though it is too late to say so.

Arita For me, a large part of "Eva" is seen as a kind of box-and-box therapy work by director Hideaki Anno.

Nakasato: Your favorite character? Is it that director Anno is your favorite character (laughs)?

Arita That would be true (laughs). (laughs). You are looking at the film as a projection of what Anno-san is thinking and what kind of character he has inside him. I think that the reason the old theatrical version turned out the way it did was a result of trying to solve everything in Anno's world, and it overflowed. In the 25 years since then, Mr. Anno has gotten married, created a company, and I feel that he has become more able to share the world with Kazuya Tsurumaki and the rest of the staff. I think that Mari symbolizes an external element that was not present in the old theatrical version. An external presence that redeems Hideaki Anno.

Shimizu: Director Anno himself has denied the interpretation that Mari = Moyoco Anno. I don't think Moyoco Anno is a personality on that side of the light either.

Nakazato It has been said in various places that Mari is heavily influenced by Kazuya Tsurumaki's taste.

Arita So, if I had to venture a guess, I would say Asuka. In the TV series, I liked watching the process of Asuka's breakdown.

Shimizu For the two of you, how did you like the ending as a coupling?

Nakazato Hmmm ....... You mentioned that there is a motif that has remained unchanged since the old theatrical version: Evangelion and its message of urging people to graduate from otaku things. In that sense, I think what is actually more important than the heroines is Touji and Kensuke. Touji, who was of the same generation and lived in the same world back then, has a family with the committee chairman as an adult man, and Kensuke has grown up and is watching over Asuka. The otaku who projects himself onto Shinji-kun is in a sense left behind, and I think that Kaji's side, Kensuke as an adult, becoming Asuka's guardian, is in a way the most meaningful coupling.

Arita Shinji remains trapped for 14 years, and Asuka has aged during that time.

Shimizu However, I feel that Asuka's inner growth is not depicted very well. I think you mean that it was Kensuke as an adult who accepted Asuka's self-consciousness as an adult, while she was still in junior high school, just as Mari does for Shinji.

Nakazato Mari is also quite indulgent of Asuka, and this may be one of the reasons why Asuka's inner self seems to remain unchanged.

Arita What children need is the love of their parents before a lover.