Interview with the developer of "Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty Complete Edition" to commemorate its release! We asked him about the appeal of this title, which "overcomes adversity through death-defying combat," and about Team NINJA's ever-evolving action.

Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty ("Wo Long"), a challenging action RPG set in the early days of the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" and involving people enchanted by an "elixir" that brings immortality, will celebrate its first anniversary on February 7, 2024. The "Wo Long: Fallen Dynasty Complete Edition" ("Complete Edition"), which includes the main game and three paid DLCs, "NARAKA: BLADEPOINT," "Lies of P," and "Jin-Oh 2" collaboration, was also just released on that day. As a look back at the first anniversary of "Wo Long," we spoke with Masaaki Yamaguchi, producer of Team NINJA, who worked on this title, and Masakazu Hirayama, producer and director of the game.

While most RPGs are Western-themed, "Wo Long" was a hot topic because of its systemization of the Chinese "Three Kingdoms" and the flowing sword fighting that is characteristic of Chinese martial arts. Players take on the role of a volunteer soldier who does not belong to any one force, and fight using a variety of martial arts weapons, hermetic arts that invoke supernatural powers, and hua jin, which is a powerful weapon that can parry any attack. In order to use martial arts and hermetic arts, one needs to have ki sei (energy), which builds up as one fights off enemy attacks with hua jing and hits with attacks from the other side.

The enemy also has ki jing. The real thrill of "Wo Long" is the way the two sides' kiatsu levels rise and fall like a seesaw, with the advantage and disadvantage switching in a short period of time.

Team NINJA, the development team behind this title, has created high-speed and challenging action games such as the "NINJA GAIDEN" series, the "Nioh" series, and "STRANGER OF PARADISE FINAL FANTASY ORIGIN" ("FF Origin"). FF ORIGIN (FF ORIGIN). For action game lovers, the name Team NINJA itself has become a brand. We also asked them about the themes and systems they have pursued in the series of games from "Nioh" and "Nioh 2" to "FF Origin" and "Wo Long," so fans of these games should definitely read this article.

Masakazu Hirayama (left) and Masaaki Yamaguchi

Aiming for a Chinese action game where the attack and defense are fluidly interchanged

--Please give us a warm welcome. First of all, please introduce yourself to our readers.

Yamagai: I am Yamagai, the producer of "Wo Long.

Hirayama I am Hirayama, who also serves as producer and director.

--First of all, please give us a look back on the past year since "Wo Long" was released.

Hirayama: I feel that the past year has been a year of working together with our users, as we have updated the game every month based on our analysis of how users are playing it. We have also made a lot of efforts to improve the PC version of the game.

Yamashii: We have been collecting information through various means such as SNS and play videos, and analyzing everyone's opinions. At its peak, we released new patches every week, so it seemed like a long time, but it all happened so fast. The reason we released a demo version for the PC version is part of our effort to encourage people to play and try it out first.

--Please tell us again about the appeal of "Wo Long".

Hirayama: It's a high-level action RPG set in the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" with a Chinese action style, with action that switches between attack and defense in a fluent manner. I think you will enjoy the different feel and battles from the "Niou" series and "FF Origin," so I encourage you to pick up the game and play it for yourself. We have also made it possible for people who are not familiar with the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" to enjoy the game, so please don't worry about that either.

Yamashii: What we have aimed for is the feel and pleasantness of the game that Team NINJA has cultivated, and the enjoyment of overcoming strong enemies and difficult situations as you sharpen your skills and get better and better at it. I think this game will be enjoyed by those who like games of death and those who like action.

Hirayama: In the "Niou" series, we dealt with Japanese samurai action with an image of "stillness and movement," but the concept of "Wo Long" is to realize intense sword fights and speedy switching between offense and defense. We also introduced the "morale rank" system to capture the image of conquering the battlefield in the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms". The player's morale is raised by defeating enemies and is compensated by becoming stronger only at that stage of the game. The image of overcoming strong enemies is that there is growth unique to the battlefield, which is different from the long-term growth of RPGs.

--Wo Long" has been developed worldwide, but I think that the impression of the "Three Kingdoms" theme may differ from country to country. How did you feel when you actually presented the game?

Yamashii: In the West, the "Three Kingdoms" is not that common. In order to gain acceptance in the West, we decided to create a dark fantasy worldview with a fusion of oriental elements. When we first released the dark key art, people in Europe and the United States responded very well to it.

--I have the impression that there are a lot of oriental settings and expressions in the game, such as the elixir that brings immortality and the expression of meridians appearing on the opponent who is attacked by an incessant pulse.

Hirayama: There are many settings that are unusual for people outside of the Asian region, so we have culturalized them at key points. For example, Tanyaku is translated as "elixir" in the English version, and we took other approaches to make the world view easier to understand.

Yamagata: It is true that there were regional differences in reaction. I was happy to hear that Chinese people appreciated the fact that we had carefully researched the "Three Kingdoms" period. From the West, we received a lot of praise for the character designs of the demons and bosses, as well as the game system.

--What was the reaction in Asia? For example, I hear that Lu Bu, who is very popular in Japan as the strongest warrior, does not have as much support in China as he does in Japan because of his repeated betrayals.

Yamagata: Since there are Chinese staff members involved in the development of this title, I have heard about the difference in evaluation between Japan and China. On the other hand, our "Three Kingdoms Warriors" series and "Shin-Sangoku Musou" series are well known, and Lu Bu is also popular as a strong enemy and a signature character, and it seems that he is not really identified with the historical Lu Bu. With this background, I thought that our company's "Wo Long" would be able to portray Lu Bu from a different angle, which is how the game is now being developed.

Hirayama: I myself have been defeated many times by Lu Bu in the "Shin-Sangoku Musou" series. From the very beginning of the production of "Wo Long," I wanted to create a character with a different angle from the common view of a strong man or a traitor, so I decided to create a "Wo Long" Lu Bu with a dark hero theme and a mask on his face.

--I think it must have been difficult to capture the motion capture because it is a Chinese action game.

Hirayama: That was another point we focused on. Kenji Tanigaki, the action director for the "Rurouni Kenshin" movie, supervised us, and we actually invited people who could handle Chinese martial arts to film us. We also arranged the recorded data in a game-like manner. During the actual recording process, we were able to receive advice on the differences between Japanese and Chinese swords as we moved around.

--Speaking of the game system, one of the most obvious features of the game system is the ability to parry any kind of attack with Kejing. What was the reaction to the Jade Jade?

Hirayama: The starting point for switching offense and defense in an instant is Kejing. Not only does it switch between offense and defense, but when you successfully use it, you can also raise your chi-sense and use hermetic and martial arts techniques, which gives you more options and allows you to fight more aggressively. This system is the heart of the Chinese action that "Wo Long" is aiming for, so we struggled with it and reworked it over and over again.

--What were some of the difficulties you faced?

Hirayama: Our goal was to create a "fluid action," but simply smoothing out the motions was not enough to make the action game feel more lively and pleasing to the senses. We brushed up the game by adding the Ka-jing effect so that the player can feel the fluent touch of the game as a series of flowing motions while adding a sense of sharpness to the intonation.

--The game is not just a visual work to be viewed, but a game to be played, and therefore, a mere smooth motion was not enough. By incorporating the Kejing system into the game, we were able to add a sense of urgency to the game, as the player takes risks in an attempt to reverse the situation from the Kejing. The trial version distributed prior to the release of the game had a difficult time in accepting the attack, but in the final version, it is easier to decide.

Yamagai: "Tokyo Game Show 2022" was the first opportunity for players to try the game. Since it was a completely new IP and a trial version, we were a bit gentle with the timing for accepting the "Kaga Jing," but more people cleared the game than we had imagined. We thought that the game was too easy and it might be difficult to experience the real thrill of "overcoming adversity," which is the concept of "Wo Long" (......), so we made the game harder in the trial version we distributed afterwards. We then made the trial version tougher, and this time we received feedback that it was "too difficult. From there, we repeated user tests and came up with the balance of the final version. It was an adjustment made in increments of a few frames (a few 60ths of a second), but I think we have achieved a good balance.

--It is truly a craftsmanship.

Hirayama: You attack the enemy, but when they counterattack, you take them out with hua jin. We wanted the player to experience the continuous movement of attacking, attacking, attacking, and taking ....... If the window for accepting the jade is too tight, people will be afraid of the risk of being hit by a bullet and will be less likely to challenge the jade. Therefore, we prioritized the ability for players to feel comfortable using the hagaeru, and while relaxing the acceptance of the hagaeru itself, we also made adjustments to the balance of the game to reduce the amount of ki that can be gained so as not to upset the balance.

--The system is very pleasant once you understand it to some extent. For example, with the tiger, at first you were just getting beaten up, but once you get the rhythm of the attacks, you can do a series of hua jin. The first, second, third, fourth, and here comes the fifth one with a delay! If I could get all of them with the same jingo, I would feel good and my ki sei would improve a lot.

Yamagai: We have also adjusted the damage so that you can challenge yourself in the process of getting into a rhythm. Once you are able to successfully perform hua jing, your reflexes will be sharpened, and you will feel as if you are in a zone, as in a sport.

--I think that feeling of being in the zone is an important keyword in Team NINJA's action games. The Grudge Demon and Katsuie Shibata in the "Nioh" series, Tiamat and Gilgamesh in "FF Origin," and so on. At first you are beaten up without any way to fight, but after a certain moment, you are able to overcome them and enjoy the exchange of offense and defense.

Yamagata: In order for players to experience this kind of sensation, we place great importance on the feel of the game. The intuitive nature of the game allows the player to move exactly as he or she envisions in the game, giving the player the feeling of being in the zone. If you can't move the way you want to, you will feel that the game has bullied you into making a mistake, and you will look for the cause elsewhere rather than improving your skills.

Hirayama: One of the development team members uses the expression "whether or not the attack and defense between you and the enemy is fair. Even when you make a mistake, there is a realization in it that can be applied to the next play. On top of that, "Wo Long" is an action RPG, so you can overcome strong enemies not only by attacking and defending actions, but also by raising your level, extending your parameters, and reviewing your equipment and other items. Even if you stumble on a difficult point, we encourage you to try various means, such as reviewing your equipment and playing online cooperative games.

From "Dissidia Final Fantasy" to "Wo Long. Continuing to evolve and deepen, Team NINJA's action creation techniques

--Looking at Team NINJA's action RPGs from the "Nioh" series to "FF Origin" and "Wo Long," we can see that while consistently pursuing the theme of "using special defense using resources to prevent the enemy's big moves in the attack and defense," the system has been refined and improved. The game system has become more sophisticated while pursuing the theme of "preventing enemies' big moves in the attack and defense with special defense using resources.In "Nioh 2," there were two resources, Ki and Yoku, which were used for normal attacks and special maneuvers to catch the enemy's big moves. In "FF Origins," energy was abolished and the resource was reduced to a single break gauge, and big moves could be received with a single button press. In "Wo Long," the system of being able to receive a big move with a single button was continued as a kajin, while the resource of ki-sense, which can swing either positively or negatively, was used to express superiority and inferiority.In "Wo Long," Ki-Sei follows the MP system of "Nioh" and "FF Origin," in which MP is increased when a player hits with a normal attack. This makes the attack and defense even more profound. Could you tell us about the difficulties in creating such a system?

Yamashigai: In the so-called "death game" or "soul-like" genre (*), it is customary to use resources for normal attacks, but we concentrated resources and gauges so that players can concentrate on offense and defense.

SOUL-LIKE

A genre of high difficulty action RPGs such as From Software's "Dark Souls". Dark Souls" had a huge impact on the game industry, and a variety of "soul-like" games have been released. Nioh" is one of these "soul-like" games, and at the pre-launch event of "Nioh" in 2016, the staff of "Bloodborne," a "soul-like" game released by From Software, took the stage and expressed their respect for "soul-like" in a positive way. Incidentally, this staff member is Mr. Yamaguchi, who also appears in this interview. The game was developed by From Software and marketed by Sony Computer Entertainment, and Mr. Yamaguchi was the producer on the Sony side at the time.

Hirayama: There was a lot of trial and error in the construction of the system, including a so-called "cool time" system in which senjutsu could be reused after a certain amount of time had passed, and the preparation of separate MP-like resources. However, in order to achieve our goal of a battle with fast switching between offense and defense, we had to look at the gauges indicating various resources, which made it difficult to concentrate on offense and defense, and complicated. So, we eventually integrated the resource management of various elements into Ki Seki so that we could concentrate on the action. We also wanted to express the momentary changes in the battle situation, such as being in the lead or being overpowered by the enemy's momentum, so we made sure that Ki-Seiki would swing both positively and negatively. We are continuing our efforts to evolve unique elements by making various choices while utilizing the know-how of titles we have developed in the past, such as the "Jin-O" series and "FF Origin.

Yamagata: Regarding the Kisei Gauge, I think the key point is that "even if the Kisei Gauge goes negative, you can still use Senjutsu and Kejing. While being prepared for the ki sei gauge to go negative, one can make a challenging choice in order to deal one more blow to the enemy. This is connected to the "Wo Long" concept of "overcoming adversity in mortal combat," and we have made adjustments so that the situation is tilted in a positive direction by successfully taking the ka-jing. This is an important concept for the development of "Wo Long," and throughout the development process, Hirayama kept saying, "Overcome adversity! (laughs). (laughs). We continued to work on how to convey this concept to our customers.

(laughs) -- "Overcoming adversity with a fight to the death" is an impressive phrase.

Yamagata: There are various options for overcoming adversity, but the game shows the concept of ...... that you can use any means to overcome adversity.

Hirayama: In creating "Wo Long," we considered the appeal of the "Three Kingdoms" in many ways. Among them, I felt that the appeal of "Sanguozhi" lies in the moment when the flow of a battle changes dramatically as morale rises. For example, in the early stages of "Romance of the Three Kingdoms," when the anti-taku alliance forces are in a tight corner, Guan Yu rides into the enemy camp alone and defeats the leader, and morale is suddenly boosted and the atmosphere becomes one of push and shove. I wanted to incorporate this kind of romance into an action game, so I came up with the morale system.

--It is true that many popular scenes in "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" are those in which the flow of battle is changed by the power of morale. So it is based on this aspect that the higher the morale in "Wo Long", the more advantageous it becomes.

Hirayama: The increase or decrease in morale is also a characteristic of each weapon type. For example, certain weapons are more likely to gain Ki, while others are more likely to lose Ki. This system may also be a result of my experience working on the arcade game "Dissidia Final Fantasy". I think the tension of fighting with a sense of urgency to always maintain resources for attacks was the starting point for the Ki system in "Wo Long".

--In the battle, there are resources that increase or decrease, and the more or less resources you have, the more or less you can attack or defend. I feel that Team NINJA titles such as "Dissidia Final Fantasy," "Nioh," "Nioh 2," "FF Origin," and "Wo Long" are all connected by a single line. Wo Long" also features collaborations with works such as "Lies of P," "NARAKA: BLADEPOINT," and "Nioh 2." How did this work out for you?

Yamagata: The same goes for the Xbox Game Pass release, but since this is a completely new IP, we wanted to get people interested in "Wo Long" from a variety of opportunities. The collaboration was part of that. Lies of P" is a deadly game in the same genre, and "NARAKA: BLADEPOINT" has the same Chinese motif, so there was synergy, and we received positive feedback from each other's users, so I think it was a good collaboration.

Hirayama: We had a lot of fun developing the collaborative content. It would be meaningless if both parties' users did not enjoy it, so it was stimulating to consider incorporating it into the "Wo Long" system. For example, "Lies of P" has an umbrella-like weapon called "Etiquette," but without collaboration, we would not be able to present it in the "Three Kingdoms" world. Without the collaboration, we would not have been able to create it in the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" world. We even asked the client to let us create a gimmick to open and close it, because it looked so interesting.

--How long will the "Complete Edition" take to play?

Yamashii: That is my least favorite question (laughs). (Laughs) For the main story part, it takes 30 to 40 hours per round. There are three DLCs in the set, each of which can be played for about five hours. Even after the ending, you can continue to play through the game, where the difficulty level increases and more powerful equipment, special effects, and weapon enhancement stages are unlocked. In addition, there is an end content called "Thousand-Mile Journey to the Magic World," which requires strategic thinking because the route you choose will affect what buffs (enhancements) are applied to you.

Hirayama: Even after reaching the highest level, there is a "Great Achiever's Correction," which allows the main character to continue to grow using experience, so we hope you will enjoy the never-ending enhancement of your character. Also, although it is not exactly content, there is a system called "Katsumi Zhenshin," which makes it easier to obtain loot of high rarity by placing restrictions on the upper limit of morale rank, damage compensation, and so on. By placing restrictions, the enemies become tougher, and you can enjoy different experiences in the same mission, so if you like challenges, we hope you will enjoy the game.

--If you are a beginner who bought "Wo Long" because of the "Complete Edition," what weapons should you use, who should you practice against, and what parameters should you improve in order to get used to the game?

Hirayama: The easiest weapon to use is the straight sword, which is equipped from the beginning. The twin swords also have few gaps, so I think it is easy to aim for the Kejin. I recommend the boss of the first stage, Zhang Liang, as a training partner. This boss is designed to teach you the basics of "Wo Long," so by the time you get used to it, you will have mastered the basic system. For the first parameter to raise, I would recommend Moku-Doku, whose physical strength can be easily raised, or Do-Doku, which allows you to put on heavy equipment.

Yamaguchi: If you like to face adversity, it would be a good idea to practice with the demons. This is why we have placed demons with high morale in the first stage. You can also play cooperatively online, so you can rely on other players. We hope that those of you who are already playing will help out players who are starting with the Complete Edition.

--If a player who plays "Wo Long" with Xbox Game Pass buys the "Complete Edition," will they be able to use their save data as-is? Hirayama: Yes, you can take over the saved data.

Hirayama: Yes, you can continue to use the saved data. Also, as a different story, we are currently distributing a demo version on Steam and Microsoft Store, and the saved data from this version can also be transferred to the full version.

--I see. It would be good to try these trial versions first to get a feel for the game. Finally, do you have a message for our readers?

Hirayama: First of all, to those who have already purchased "Wo Long", I would like to thank you for playing this game for a long time, from the main game to the three DLCs. Thank you very much. Also, for those who have not yet played the game, I hope you will take this opportunity to pick up the "Complete Edition" and play it, since it is a voluminous content that includes all the DLC and collaborations.

Yamashii: We are very grateful to all of you who have continued to play the game over the years, which is why we were able to release the "Complete Edition". Some of you are starting with the "Complete Edition," so I hope you will join in the fun by giving advice and helping out in multiplayer games.

--Thank you very much.

Team NINJA's action games continue to evolve and deepen with each release. By looking at a series of games as a "line," we can see something new. The team's new open-world action RPG "Rise of the Ronin" will be released on March 22, 2024. It should be fun to look forward to the evolution and deepening of "Rise of the Ronin" while enjoying the never-ending "Wo Long" once you start playing.

(Reporting, writing, and photography by Shinichi Yanamoto)