The fun of baseball is fully recreated in a TCG! No.5 "Professional Baseball Card Game Dream Order" ["TCG for Beginners!

In this series of articles, we will report on the appeal of TCG games that can be enjoyed by TCG beginners even if they start playing now, as well as the TCG industry as told by the development team and staff members.

In this fifth installment, we pick up "Professional Baseball Card Game Dream Order (hereinafter referred to as "Dream Order")," a title based on the national sport of baseball, which was just released in April of this year.

In the first half, we experienced the charms of the fully released "Dream Order" by playing with an actual deck while being taught by a member of the development team.

In the second half of the interview, we asked Mr. Kobayashi, the producer, about the story behind the release of "Dream Order," future development, ideas for boosting the TCG industry, and a message for those who want to start playing "Dream Order!

People interviewed

Ravika

A deck case fairy from the TCG world with a mission to increase the number of new TCG players. It would be a terrible thing if the number of new players did not increase, so today she continues to help spread the charm of TCGs to the world.

Since she cannot play the card game in her body, she uses her live avatar's hand to play during the interview.

Even though it is a TCG, the feeling of playing is just like baseball!

Rabika Oh Oh Wow Wow DeNA BayStars!　Hello, my name is Rabika!

Bushiroad Kobayashi (Kobayashi) Hello, Rabika here. I'm Nobuto Kobayashi, the producer of "Professional Baseball Card Game Dream Order"!　You were singing a cheering song earlier, but do you like the Yokohama DeNA BayStars, Rabika-chan?

Rabika: Yes, I do!　I've been a fan of the team since 1996, when Oya was manager, so I'm thrilled to hear that today we get to play "Dream Order," which is based on baseball!

Kobayashi: You must be a pretty old baseball fan, Rabika.

What is "Dream Order"?

Dream Order" is a TCG title based on the national sport of baseball, released on April 20, 2024. Players become the manager of a baseball team and compete against each other using a deck constructed from player cards. The main game is between pitchers and hitters, and the player with the highest score wins the game after three rounds of back-to-back battles, supported by the players in his or her hand. The game features card abilities that incorporate the rules of baseball well, and a system in which the outcome of a hit is determined by the roll of the dice.

Ravika: Do you like baseball, Mr. Kobayashi?

Kobayashi Of course. I also like baseball, and I have played many TCGs since I was a child, so I am very confident that "Dream Order" is a title that I am proud to have developed.

Ravika: This title is filled with the love of Mr. Kobayashi and the staff!

Kobayashi So, here is the starting deck for "Dream Order," which was released on April 20!

Rabika: Wow, that's amazing!　There are really 12 teams on ......!　This is an impressive picture.

Kobayashi I would like to play with this starting deck today, Ravika, which team would you choose?

Rabika Rabika is of course the BayStars!

Kobayashi Then, I will use the starting deck for the Fukuoka Softbank Hawks here. From here, let's follow the actual flow of the game as I explain it to you. By the way, Rabika, can you grasp cards with your hands?

Rabika: Yes, I'm bringing a live avatar this time, too. You can even wear gloves with this one, so it's no problem!

Kobayashi I see... ......?

In the foreground are the raw avatar hands that Ravika uses for interviews!

Kobayashi ......, let's get back on track. Let the games begin!

Rabika: Yes, sir!　Play ball!

Kobayashi: First, we decide who goes first and who goes second by rock-paper-scissors-scissors. The first team is the batter's side in the first inning, and the second team is the pitcher's side. Just like in actual baseball, the game changes after three outs, and the offensive and defensive teams take turns. This is repeated for three innings, and the higher score wins.

Ravika: So, unlike in actual baseball, there are three innings instead of nine. Alright then, let's play rock-paper-scissors. ......

Kobayashi ...... Yes, I'm the starter this time. Now, first place the pitcher marked "starter" from the order deck in the bench area, and place the fielders in the bench area in the batting order you have decided.

Ravika So you are free to choose your own batting order. I'm wondering if this is more in line with the actual team structure or if you want to be game strong. ......

Kobayashi Then, after placing the shuffled main deck on the deck, draw from the deck the number of numbers written next to the "starter" of your starting pitcher. This will be your initial hand.

Ravika That. Does that mean that the number of cards in your initial hand changes depending on who you choose as your starting pitcher? ......

Kobayashi That's right. In "Dream Order," the cards in your hand are used to support your batters and pitchers, so you can think of the number of cards in your initial hand as being like the stamina of your starting pitcher.

Ravika I see. It's quite unusual that the number of cards in the initial hand changes depending on the cards in the deck!

Kobayashi Well, first of all, let's start with the standby phase. Please place the players who will play each other in the main area. Since the offense and defense are reversed, I'm the No. 1 batter and Rabika-chan is the starting pitcher, East. For pitchers, the "DP" number written in the lower left corner of the card is the base points, and for hitters, the "AP" number is the base points. If the batter's AP is higher than the pitcher's DP, the decision is made to hit the ball. Since the pitcher usually has higher base points, the points can be enhanced by playing one or two cards from the hand in the support area in the next phase of play. So, here, there is a game of guessing how much value the opponent has given to the support area.

Ravika, what are these "meat" and "strong swing" things?

KOBAYASHI These indicate how the batter hits the ball. Meet" indicates that the batter is more likely to get a solid hit when judging the hit, while "Strike Out" indicates that the batter is more likely to get a home run instead of an out. Since both batters declare whether they are going to hit a meat or a hard strike after placing their cards face down in the support area, the pitcher must anticipate which way the opponent is aiming and place the support.

Ravika I see. ....... So, I'm sure it's a first, so here's what I'm thinking: ......?

Kobayashi I have also finished placing my support, so I would like to go with "strong strikeout" this time.

Ravika Eh. A strong strike out of the blue!　I guess my reading was off. ......

Kobayashi Let's table the cards in the support area. The batter's side has 2+4 for 6 points, while the pitcher's side remains at 6 points due to support failure since the card was for meat. In case of a tie, the batter wins, so the dice are rolled for the hitting decision.

Ravika Ah!　Is that perhaps a support app for your phone?

Kobayashi That's right. The support app "Dream Order Game Supporter" provides functions such as rolling dice for batting decisions, calculating scoreboard points, and creating batting order charts.

Ravika Heh!　Ravika, I'm the type of person who often forgets to roll tokens or dice, so it's nice to have it all on my phone!

Kobayashi Let's roll the dice: ......

Ravika Eh. 11, which means .......

Kobayashi ...... this time it's a hard roll, so 11 means a homerun. In other words, it's a home run. ......

Ravika Heyーー!　What do you mean the first batter struck out hard and hit a home run from the first pitch of the first inning!

Kobayashi Well, well. It's ...... that makes it easier to explain when the score is scored. When a score is scored, the pitcher's side can draw a card for the score from the deck as a bonus. The cards in the support area are then placed in the rest area, and the next batter comes up and the game begins again.

Ravika I'm so frustrated - ......!　I don't want to score any more points. So Ravika puts this card in the support area!

Kobayashi Then, I also put a card in the support area, so I declare a strong swing again. Now let's open the cards in the support area.

Rabika Then!　Ravika, I'll support you with the same card that I just drew, Azuma, the pitcher!

Kobayashi Oh, this is the "awakening" system. When a card with the same card number is placed, awakening is activated, and the basic points are added as they are, not the value of the support. In other words, Higashi's basic DP point is 6, so it is simply doubled, and 6 + 6 equals 12 points. In this case, Ravika has 12 points and I have 9 points, so the pitcher hits the batter and gets an out. The defensive player then places a card face down in the out area from the deck.

Ravika I see, so this is how you increase the out count!

Kobayashi: Broadly speaking, the game proceeds in this way. In addition, some cards have special abilities, and it is also possible to switch pitchers, but I will explain that as needed when it comes up, so let's just go on with the game.

Ravika: All right, we're going to win at any cost. ......

~20 minutes later, Rabika attacks in the bottom of the 3rd inning~!

Ravika: Please, please!　I want an 11 or 12 on a hard strikeout. ......　Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Kobayashi The dice read 2 and 3, so you're out. That's three outs, so I win 1-0!

Ravika: Wow, I lost!　I couldn't get back my first loss. ...... But it was so much fun!　The feel of the game is exactly like baseball, and I thought it really recreated the fun of the game between the batter and the pitcher!

The basic rules are based on baseball rules, so it was really realistic in terms of reading the cards to support the pitcher and the timing of changing the pitcher.

Kobayashi: This is exactly where the manager's leadership shines. Of course, we try to make the game enjoyable even for those who don't know anything about baseball, but if you do know baseball, I think you can feel the excitement of fighting actual games on behalf of the manager.

In addition, although we didn't talk about it much this time because we played with the starting deck, there are some conditions and rules for deck construction, such as costs, so please read the play guide on the official website to understand the detailed rules as well.

Ravika: I think it would be fun to create your own all-star team or make your own rules!

Kobayashi The regulations for tournaments and events include "team-only" and "all-star-only," but if you are playing with friends, it might be an interesting way to play to set rules for reinforcing players when building decks.

Ravika It might be fun to bring 3 decks each with your friends and have a pennant race!　This is a dream come true. ......

Kobayashi We developed this game with a focus on satisfying not only players who like baseball, but also those who like TCGs, so please try out different ways to play!

We continued our interview with producer Mr. Kobayashi about the story behind the release and future developments!

Bushiroad Producer Shinto Kobayashi on the release and future development

Ravika: Thank you for the teaching today!　To begin with, how do you feel about "Dream Order" now that it has been about two months since its release on April 20 (the date of the interview was June 27)?

Kobayashi: It's been two months, but I think there are still many baseball fans who don't know about "Dream Order," so we would like to appeal to that segment of the market. The customer base is a little different from that of other TCGs, so I feel that this is also challenging. One of our ambitions is to create a world where commercials are aired during professional baseball games and awareness spreads among baseball fans.

Ravika: I think there were TCGs with a baseball motif before Dream Order.

Kobayashi: In the past, other companies have developed TCGs with baseball motifs, not only full-fledged TCGs but also arcade card games, etc. In developing "Dream Order," we considered what the main focus of the game would be. For example, we were conscious of past baseball TCGs in terms of deformation, such as how much of the defense should be reflected in the game and how much of the base running should be reflected.

I decided that the smallest unit of baseball in my opinion is "a match between a batter and a pitcher," and I decided to make the game a single flow, including the base running that accompanies the batter and the pitcher. However, there are also situations where players like defensive masters play an active role, so I included a "support" system in the form of defensive skills to back up the pitcher to recreate elements of real-life baseball. In doing so, we did a lot of research on how past baseball TCGs had incorporated defense.

Ravika I see. By the way, were there any difficulties you encountered during development, or any episodes that left a lasting impression?

Kobayashi The "Dream Order" project was born out of the blue. In a meeting where we were trying to come up with something new, one of the staff members, who loves baseball, said, "Oh, by the way, is there a baseball TCG?" The discussion went on as it was, because baseball is indeed a game with separate offenses and defenses and a turn-based system with major and minor categories. I was selected as the producer because I had always been a card gamer and a baseball fan.

However, we knew from the beginning that the player base would be different from the usual TCG users, so we had to find a balance between making the rules too complicated, which would never be understood, and making them too simple, which would quickly become boring.

The item that broke through the balance was the dice. Dice are a familiar item that everyone has seen at least once, and I think we all have a vague idea of the strength of dice when they produce a large number. We thought that the luck element of dice could be a way to bridge the gap between players who are familiar with TCGs and those who are unfamiliar with them.

Ravika: It's kind of fun to have the outcome determined by dice, like a TRPG (Table Talk RPG, an analog game that focuses on conversational exchange)!

Kobayashi: Yes, it is. The image of "trading cards that can be played" was at the root of our development. We think there is a need for people to collect them as Trekkies, but we also wanted to add value to the game by making them playable. We wanted to make it a card game like a board game.

Another point is that I thought that a game with a baseball motif would have people not only wanting to win the game, but also wanting their team to win, so I wanted the game to be used as a communication tool rather than just a casual game. I wanted the game to be a communication tool rather than a casual progression of the game. To this end, we incorporated a meet and strong strike system and a "declaration" element that allows players to communicate the points of their cards to each other. We wanted the game to be one where players could talk to each other and react, so that was a point we struggled with.

However, the biggest obstacle was ...... "12 teams". I think TCGs are finally gaining public recognition in recent years, but I had to visit all the teams within a month and a half to explain what TCGs are and what kind of players support them to those who don't know about them. I think we visited all the baseball teams in a month and a half. It was a lot of work, but I enjoy working on it because I have always loved baseball, and I am very happy to have developed it, although I still feel a big barrier.

Ravika: Indeed, there are so many baseball teams and players. ...... By the way, are there any points you were conscious of in terms of collectible elements in TCGs?

Kobayashi: For "Dream Order," we prepared horizontal cards called "Tactical Cards.

Kobayashi: If you could only use vertical photos, it would be difficult to use photos of famous defensive scenes or scenes of players gathered together, so we wanted to differentiate our cards from other TCGs by providing cards that face horizontally.

We also dared to choose a special parallel card for processing that did not include scenes of the players playing. We intentionally picked scenes such as a player coming home and striking a gut-punch, a pitcher being happy after striking out, or waving to the fans. Play scenes of players are often used, but baseball has drama in every moment, so I think that by employing memorable scenes, baseball fans will notice them, and I believe that this is an element that will stick with them as collectors.

Ravika I understand!　It would be nice to have a card with a scene of a favorite player's characteristic gesture or something!

Kobayashi: Other TCGs also have cards with scenes that reproduce the original story, but I think it will be easier for players to feel "a certain way" that baseball players behave in a certain way. For example, this card of Neo is a good example.

Kobayashi: If you like baseball, you know the scene where he turns his back and spreads his hands. This card image received a lot of impressions when it was first released, and cards that convey the real appeal of each player were well received.

Ravika: Baseball fans love the finer points, don't they? But what kind of players are you targeting with "Dream Order"?

Kobayashi: To be honest, we want to attract a different demographic than other TCGs. In terms of the industry, TCGs are a type of toy that may seem broad, but they are not that broad. If we want to expand the industry, we need to develop a new segment of players. For example, we hope that older people who have been baseball card collectors for a long time but do not play TCGs will be inspired to play as a family with their elementary school-aged children. We are considering the older generation of parents and the younger generation of elementary school students as new players, so we are trying to match the difficulty level of the game to them as much as possible.

Ideally, we would like to attract women who are fans of professional baseball, so we would like to create a space where it is easy to invite them to the game - for example, by creating events where they can participate while wearing baseball uniforms - to reach a demographic that has not been present in TCGs until now. In fact, it has only been two months since its release, so we are halfway there, but there are signs that we are beginning to reach the demographic we have targeted.

However, I feel that we still need to push the envelope a bit more to get these people to bring their friends along, so I think we should communicate more about the fun atmosphere and special experiences that are unique to "Dream Order". For example, I think one of the fun aspects of "Dream Order" is that you can play baseball even when it rains.

Ravika: With "Dream Order," you can even let your favorite team win a lot of games.

Kobayashi: That's right. In "Dream Order," the player's position is that of a manager and owner. In other words, in "Dream Order," you can buy a baseball team for 1,500 yen. You can buy your own original team for 1,500 yen and reinforce players for 400 yen. While enjoying the management of the team, such as buying a team and reinforcing the team, you can also enjoy taking the role of manager and directing the team in games.

However, players have a parameter called cost, and there is a cost limit rule for deck construction. In the real world, if you only have star players, you will run out of money, so we want players to be able to enjoy the game while also dealing with these practical issues.

Ravika It would be interesting if the abilities and costs of players also changed between their younger and veteran years!　By the way, what kind of products and developments do you have in mind for the future?

Kobayashi: One of our intentions in developing "Dream Order" is to "let people get to know various baseball players. Therefore, we would like to develop the product in such a way that people can learn more about players other than their favorite baseball teams. For example, if we develop team-specific packs, we may be able to spotlight players who are not very active in the second team, but are still undergoing adjustments and we want to carefully nurture them.

If the winning team is featured, it will leave a lasting impression on fans, so we would like to consider commemorative packs for the winning team, although there are some hurdles, such as the schedule. We would also like to feature individual team products and Samurai Japan-related products.

Ravika: You have a great love for baseball. ...... By the way, are you going to pick up any famous players from the past?

Kobayashi: Of course, we would like to commercialize alumni players as well, but if we go all the way back to the past, we would end up with a tremendous number of players, so we will keep an eye on that, but we would also like to do packaged products that include alumni players that are popular.

Ravika: There are so many elements that baseball fans would love! What are you planning for "Dream Order" to encourage these baseball fans to play as new players?

Kobayashi: After all, we believe that it is a very high hurdle for people who have no experience with TCGs to start playing anew. To overcome this hurdle, we believe that the three elements of "having someone to play with, meeting people of the same level, and playing in a place you have been to before" will trigger new interest.

As for the "having someone to do it with," I think this is easy to approach because baseball games are often attended by a group of friends or family members, rather than by a single person. As for "meeting people of the same level," there have been cases in other TCGs where players have drifted away from other players due to the difference in experience level, so we would like to hold events with an atmosphere where people of the same level can gather and senior players can teach them.

I think that how to overcome the "do it in a place you've been to before" will be a major point. Not only card stores, but specialty stores of any genre are quite a hurdle for people who have never been there before. Therefore, we try to make our products easily available at shopping malls and convenience stores instead of specialty stores. We are also focusing on LAWSON for distribution in convenience stores, so we would like to create a situation where people can get the product by just going to LAWSON.

In this way, I think the first step is for people to buy the game at a place they have been to and experience it at a place they have been to. We are planning events for this summer and beyond, keeping in mind points such as how to lower the hurdle to actually buying and starting to play, how to meet people at the same level as you, and how to make it easier to invite your friends.

Ravika, when you think of places baseball fans have been to, like baseball stadiums?

Kobayashi I am sure it would be interesting to hold the tournament at a baseball stadium. Not only at a ballpark like Koshien, but also at related facilities such as Tokyo Dome City or the Museum of Famous Players. It would also be great if we could play the game on the mound and even raise the fans' heads when the team wins the championship. Of course, it may be difficult to realize all of these things, but we would like to plan tournaments and events that are unique to the "Dream Order.

Ravika: Last question then!　What do you think is important for the TCG industry as a whole to gain even more new users and become even more exciting?

Kobayashi What I am a little concerned about is that it would be better to think on an industry-wide basis rather than on a manufacturer-by-manufacturer basis for each TCG released. Of course, their own sales are important, but what about the industry as a whole?

Of course, their own sales are important, but I think it would be good for each manufacturer to have a greater sense of camaraderie in terms of how the industry should act as a whole.

We have changed the name of the event from "Bushiroad Card Game Festival" to "Card Game Festival," increased the number of areas where TCG titles from other companies are handled within the event, and changed it into an event where TCG can be enjoyed beyond the borders of manufacturers. We believe that this should expand further, and that the moment when the entire TCG industry joins hands will surely come in the future. In order to further expand from the current user base, the industry as a whole will have to think about this.

In a smaller scale, I think it would be good if there were specialty card stores where customers could easily enter. I used to work in a card store myself, and I think there is only so much you can do, since not every store has a lot of employees. However, I have heard that some companies put a lot of effort into training their staff. Card stores not only sell cards, but also hold tournaments and events, so I think players' impressions will change depending on how the officials and store staff respond. It is a small thing, but I think it would be a good idea to fix the whole situation from such a point of view.

Ravika I see. So it's important for the industry as a whole to take a hands-on approach and for the staff to become more empowered as well. Well then, any last comments for the users?

Kobayashi While there are many different TCGs these days, we created "Dream Order" with the hope that people will come to love baseball from a different angle. We hope that those who start playing "Dream Order" will be able to support their favorite baseball team as a sport and also experience a new form of baseball through the cards. I hope that this will lead them to play many other TCGs, including "Dream Order".

(Reporting and writing by Umi Yoshida; Illustrations by Ayu Airai)

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