I wanted to bring out the fun of anime that is being lost - Interview with Yoh Yoshinari (director) and Kazuki Nakajima (scriptwriter) of TRIGGER's highly anticipated spring anime "BNA B.N.A!

The latest work from TRIGGER, which has been releasing one original animation after another, is "BNA BNA" ("BNA"), a much talked-about work for the spring 2020 school year.

The film is directed once again by Yoh Yoshinari, who first directed "Little Witch Academia," and the script was written by Kazuki Nakajima, who has worked on "Kill la Kill" and "Promea" and knows TRIGGER inside and out. The dynamic animation, which unfolds at a light tempo, evokes a bygone era that thrilled anime viewers. We asked Mr. Yoshinari and Ms. Nakajima about the appeal of "BNA," which they hope to bring to this age.

A buddy story between a man and a girl, but the main character is the girl on the partner's side.

--Could you tell us how this work came into being?

Yoshinari: "BNA" was an idea that came to me from the margins, or rather, it started when I received a proposal to do a transformation story as a subject rather than as a theme. In my previous work, "Little Witch Academia," the main character (Akko) often transformed herself with magic, and I was asked if I would like to make a work focusing on that. However, I was also told that it would be like Osamu Tezuka's "Mysterious Melmo-chan," but I thought that would be too much.

Nakajima: You didn't get it?

Yoshinari I didn't know what to do. I felt that "Vampire" was a better direction for a Tezuka Osamu story about transformation. That was the starting point.

--So you were chosen because of your experience with "Little Witch Academia"?

Yoshinari: I think it was more a matter of anticipating that it would be an interesting animation. Since I have a background as an animator, I think they decided that I would be good at what I do.

--I think they decided that since I am an animator, I would be good at it. Is that what you thought "Vampire" would do?

Yoshinari That's right. But more than that, "Melmo-chan" is aimed at children, so it is difficult to expand in a hard direction. But with "Vampire," as well as "X-men" and other works, it is possible to depict how people (who transform) live in society in that direction.

Nakajima At the very least, you can incorporate a dramatic element.

Yoshinari In addition to the storyline, it was also a Netflix film. I thought that a hard storyline would be more pleasing to the audience.

--Nakajima: How much of the content had been decided when you joined the project?

Nakajima: When I joined the project, it was decided that the characters would be beasts, and that there would be two main characters, a man and a young woman. The story was that a society of beastmen existed on the dark side of society that humans were unaware of, and that a girl who thought she was human, but discovered she was a beastman, would be forced to enter that world. We had already worked up to the point where the girl shifts from the human world of light to the beastman world of darkness, and explores what kind of life she can lead within the rules of the beastman world.

--Nakajima: First of all, we wanted to create a setting in which a teenage girl could live in a world of light.

Nakajima: First of all, if we were going to depict a teenage girl's encounter with society and how she finds her way of life within it, we had to create the society properly and show its problems. So, I thought about what a society with beastmen would be like. If the humans recognize the beastmen, rather than the beastmen society = darkness, the contrast between the human society and the beastmen society can be depicted in a clear way when the girl blends into the beastmen society. Therefore, we came up with the idea of setting the story in the 21st century, where if there were beastmen in the world, a city would be the setting, and the city, "Anima City," would be ....... At the same time, Mr. Yoshinari wanted to create a town with various races. This means that there are more than a certain number of beastmen, so it is not possible, for example, for a country to create beastmen as a result of human experimentation. Therefore, we started from a world where there have always been two types of people: humans and beastmen.

--What did you want to do after you received the proposal?

Yoshinari: The relationship between the main character and his buddy. If I were to use an analogy, it would be like "City Hunter". But the main character is Shang, not Saeba. So at the time, if there was a kind of detective agency opened by a werewolf and a girl fell in with him, all I could think about at the time was how I could make Kaoru from the "buddy" side become the main character (laughs). (Laughs.) I didn't think about the surrounding settings.

Nakajima: At first, the main character Michiru (Kagemori) was in the position of a trouble buster. At that time, the director had an image of a pharmaceutical company, a cult, and ......, so once that happened, it was already a three-act story for us. The pharmaceutical company, the cult, and the two main characters, and I had to think about what would happen from these three subjects.

Yoshinari The pharmaceutical company is the backbone of the town, which is like a huge factory area.

Nakajima Economic capital is necessary for a city to exist.

Yoshinari They are so necessary that we cannot escape from them economically and cannot live without them, but they are also unwelcome to the residents. But that does not mean that they are evil, and defeating them will not solve the problem. It is the same as in the real world.

Nakajima And then there are the gangs.

Yoshinari The police were a much larger organization. So you have been putting too much into it since then (laughs).

Nakajima So, I thought about what would happen if the police were smaller and there were gangs, pharmaceutical companies, and police, how would they relate to Michiru, the main character, and what kind of setting would be needed to make it work as a drama, and I also thought about the reasons and made proposals.

--Nakajima: So you concentrated on creating a story about the main character Michiru?

Nakajima Yes, that's right. However, I was thinking of it more like a masterpiece theater. It's like "Romeo and the Blue Sky" in the way young people make their way in the city. If the detective agency is at the center of the story, the request becomes the axis of each episode, so I felt that the story should be centered on the girl. So I thought it would have a Masterpiece Theater-like atmosphere.

Yoshinari Is that right?

Nakajima Didn't you say that?　（We talked about Onji (Heidi, Girl of the Alps), didn't we?

Yoshinari That is a different story. It was like Onji was a mercenary (laughs).

Nakajima Yes, Onji was a Swiss mercenary (laughs). (laughs) It is indeed a different story.

It was a fast-paced action play like in the old days, but adapted to today's times.

--Nakajima: What was the part you wanted to show in terms of depicting movement?

Yoshinari I wonder where (laughs). I feel like I overthought the theme.

Nakajima But you were particular about the factor of a human being transforming into a beast. Michiru can transform into anything, and the fun of A becoming B is probably the fun of the animation that Yoshinari wanted to make. （He seems to regret that it was difficult because he had to create two settings (humanoid and animaloid) (laughs). However, the fact that Michiru grows up and changes into something, or that (Ookami) Shiro changes into something, is not only interesting from the animation point of view, but it is also ≒ (near-equal) or symbolic to the theme. In that sense, I felt that "change" was an important part of the work, even as I watched it from the sidelines.

--Yoshinari: I felt that the animation was very animated.

Yoshinari That is a quirk, or something that comes naturally, but it is certainly a different direction from today's tight-fitting animation. Also, having animals as the main characters was surprisingly freeing, and I didn't have to think about unifying each character. The faces of animals don't have to be so well-defined.

Nakajima: And they can transform, right?

Yoshinari That's right. （It is interesting that you don't have to pay much attention to the fact that there are two faces (one human and one animal).

Nakajima It becomes even more symbolic. Nakajima: It becomes more symbolic. That is also very animation-like. But I feel that Yoshinari-san is under Tezuka-san's genes, and Imaishi-san (also of TRIGGER) has Dynamic Pro genes.

--Nakajima The girls are round and round.

Nakajima The girls are round and yet sexy, just like Tezuka-san.

Yoshinari: On that note, Tezuka also has a work called "Zero Man. In it, there is a human being with a tail, which is a different species from the human race. I think he probably got the idea from the Yeti and the apes.

Nakajima There was also "Tori-jin Taikei," in which birds evolved to become human-like. There are many of them in Tezuka's works. Jungle Emperor" also depicts a straightforward interaction between beasts, with a lion that speaks and carnivorous animals that no longer eat meat (laughs).

Yoshinari In that sense, I have been very careful (with the drawing staff) about making the animals look like animals. In order to show the difference between a beast and a human, it is important to show the difference not only in the shape of the face, but also in the movement of the shoulder blades and joints, and in the aspect ratio of the ribs. This is something that is done in foreign animations. The other thing is "not to work too hard" (laughs). (Laughs) I tell them not to put in a lot of work or spend a lot of time on the original drawings, and to "make it look like old-fashioned animation.

--What is the main point of your intention?

Yoshinari: I don't want it to move too quickly, or to be too slow. I want them to move quickly from point to point. There are adult reasons for this, but I wanted to bring out the fun of animation, which is being lost.

Nakajima: Like a comic book movie.

Yoshinari: The idea was to make Japanese limited animation of the '7s and '80s look modern. And since Mr. Nakajima's scenarios always seem to have something happening, it was a natural fit.

--Nakajima: Were you conscious of the tempo in the scenario stage?

Nakajima: I am impatient rather than conscious. In that sense, I am also impatient. I just wrote at a tempo that I was comfortable with. However, when I worked with Mr. Imaishi, he told me, "Don't make any more scenes where people are talking face to face. He wanted them to be constantly moving. So, I had them talk to each other while running.

On the other hand, Mr. Yoshinari allowed me to make scenes where people are talking face to face, and in that sense, the tempo is still normal, but I think it is still in my rhythm. What I find interesting is basically kigeki, which can be a physical kigeki or a psychological kigeki that depicts the process of confrontation and tactics between A and B. I think that this time, too, I am doing a masterpiece theater. This time, too, even though I intend to do a masterpiece theater, as long as I am writing it, it will probably be an action play. What do you think?

Yoshinari That is Mr. Nakajima's specialty. That is why I would like to express it properly.

Nakajima: That is not the main focus of this project, but I have always enjoyed writing action scenes because I can write them quickly.

--I have always enjoyed writing action scenes.　Can you tell us how you came to be involved in this project?

Nakajima: Actually, it started with me. The script for "Promea" was completed two years ago, so I asked Masahiko Otsuka, the president of TRIGGER, to let me work with TRIGGER again, and he replied that Yoshinari's project was in progress and if I was interested, he would take a look at it. So I received a proposal, we had a meeting, and I told him that if the theme was "beastmen," I could participate in this way. Since I was free at the time, I agreed to do everything from the series composition to the main script.

Yoshinari That was lucky. If it weren't for you, I would probably still be working on the project.

Nakajima Oh, no!　I made a mistake. Mr. Otsuka threatened me, saying, "If you want "Promair" to be released in time for the theater, you have to write this" (laughs). (Laughs.) Yes. So, having "Promea" taken hostage, I decided to do this "BNA" in tears. That's what I was going to say in the official version, but I forgot (laughs).

Yoshinari: Did you forget the setting (laughs)?

The process of character transformation is what is interesting.

--Nakajima: In terms of character creation, as you mentioned earlier, I think the characters were born from the organization and their roles.

Nakajima: Anyway, I was constantly told by the director to "write Michiru" or "Michiru is not enough. We are all grown-ups now, so we tend to write about Shiro. But that is not the way to go if you are going to make Michiru the main character. We have to write about how Michiru thinks and acts in this world. That is why I had meetings with producer Naoko Tsutsumi, screenwriters Kimiko Ueno and Nanami Higuchi, and female producers from Toho and Fuji Television, so I wrote the script. That was the most difficult part.

Yoshinari: I also wanted them to be involved or active in society, even if they were fantasy characters. It's a matter of course, but I wanted Michiru to be active in society.

Nakajima That's why we made sure that Michiru would not be overlooked (laughs).

Yoshinari That's right (laughs). (Laughs.) That means not to deviate from Michiru's point of view. If the point of view is shifted to another character, that person's worldview will come to the surface, and it will become more complicated.

Nakajima When you think about it, it's a fairly first-person scenario. It is basically an anime in which Michiru is looking at this world.

Yoshinari: I had to change it to Shiro's view from Michiru's point of view so that it wouldn't be too close to Shiro's view.

Nakajima We actually received such an order. I was told, "Don't forget Michiru's point of view at all times.

--I felt that Michiru was showing herself through her actions, rather than letting other people talk about her. If you put that much thought into it, is Michiru your favorite character?

Yoshinari It depends on whether you like her or not (laughs).

Nakajima Well, I am Jackie.

Yoshinari That's true for you, isn't it, Mr. Nakajima? I am the director, so I guess I have to say Michiru. But I have the feeling that I am confronting Shiro with the feelings of Michiru.

Nakajima That's right. There is a part of me that entrusts my feelings to Michiru. That's why I didn't write enough about Shiro.

Yoshinari I made him too taciturn.

Nakajima I should have made him talkative when he eats stew or something like that (laughs).

(laughs) -- Can you tell us at the end what kind of world you are thinking of depicting with Michiru and Shiro as the central characters?

Nakajima I guess the world is about money.

Everyone (laughs).

Nakajima That's a lie (laughs).

Yoshinari The relationship between Michiru and Shiro is the core of the story, and we will see how that relationship develops. I don't mean in terms of romance, but in terms of the relationship between Michiru and Shiro.

Nakajima The way Michiru and Shiro clash and come to understand each other will lead to changes in society as a whole, so I would like people to see how these two change. How will it affect animosity?

Yoshinari I am interested not only in the change in form, but also in the transformation of the characters as they gain experience, and I am interested in that metamorphosis. If I were to use Osamu Tezuka as an analogy, it would be like the reversal of the positions of good and evil between Gao and Akanemaru in "The Firebird Phoenix Arc" at the beginning and at the end. I feel that this is an interesting theme, and I would like to depict the process of how the relationship between Michiru and Shiro changes and why it happens.

Nakajima: On the official website, Yoshinari-san mentioned the title "BNA" as "liberation from captivity," and I think that is exactly what he meant.

(Interview and text by Koji Shimizu)

Production Information
TV animation "BNA BNA
<Broadcast Information

Broadcasting will begin in April on Fuji Television Network's "+Ultra" channel.
Broadcasting on other stations
Fuji Television Network: Every Wednesday from April 8, 24:55-25:25
Kansai Television: Thursdays from April 9, 25:55 to 26:25
Tokai Television: Every Saturday from April 11, 25:50 to 26:20
TV Nishinippon: Wednesdays 25:55-26:25 starting April 8
Hokkaido Bunka Broadcasting: Every Sunday from April 12, 25:15-25:45
BS Fuji: Every Wednesday from April 15, 24:00-24:30
Broadcast times are subject to change. For details, please visit the official website.

<Distribution information>
Episodes 1-6 will be exclusively available on Netflix from March 21.

<Story
In the 21st century, beasts that had been hidden in the dark corners of history are beginning to reveal their existence. One day, Michiru Kagemori, an ordinary human, suddenly becomes a raccoon dog beastman. In order to escape from the humans, he heads for "Anima City," a special zone for beastmen, which was created ten years ago for beastmen to live like beastmen. There, Michiru meets a wolf beastman, Shiro Ohgami, who hates humans, and through working with him, she learns about the troubles, lives, and joys of the "beastmen" that she did not know about when she was in the human world. Why did Michiru become a beastman? As Michiru pursues this mystery, she becomes involved in a major event that she never expected.